Vastly experienced though he is, Soulfly?s Max Cavalera is still embroiled in a perpetual learning process. The former Sepultura frontman is as susceptible to diverse and exotic influences as ever; many of which have leaked in from the outside, and have largely become staples of his increasingly varied musical output. As far as Max is concerned, a new record is a new palette, and a new palette allows him the opportunity to paint with fresh colours. ?Prophecy?, the next chapter in Soulfly's history, offers those fresh and exuberant colours once again, but there are very perceptible changes. The guttural heaviness remains, but new flavours offer a broader take on Soulfly?s enthusiastic, energetically defined songs. Can I interest anyone in dub, reggae or latino-rhythms?
?Prophecy? also signifies change and growth. Out went bassist Marcello D. Rapp, drummer Roy Mayorga and guitarist Mike Doling; in came Bobby Burns (ex-Primer 55), Joe Nunez (Stripping The Pistol) and Marc Rizzo (ex-Ill Nino) to fill their positions respectively. Former Megadeth bassist David Ellefson also spread the wealth of his experience, performing on a number of tracks. The end result is an album that feels that much fresher, that much more intense and inspired. Max?s panoptic musical vision was helped further by a week spent in Serbia, where he rapidly developed a kinship with musicians there; most of whom, didn?t actually speak English!
So, ?Prophecy? is change. It?s also the fourth Soulfly album, and Max is as eager as anyone to get the record heard by the legions of Soulfly and Sepultura fans alike. Max spoke with me from a plush London hotel, to give me his take on exactly what ?Prophecy? symbolises, how it came together, and where these exotic new influences came from. Let?s fuck shit up!
MUK: What has the reaction to the new album been like so far?
Max: The reaction?s been really good.
MUK: How can you compare it to the last three albums you put out?
Max: I don?t really compare much. I think every album has been a good evolution and they?ve all had something interesting on it that kept moving forward, and this one does the same. It?s one step forward from the last one, and so I?m happy about that.
MUK: What are your feelings towards the new album?
Max: There?s different things on it. ?I Believe? is going to please a lot of people. Something like the first four songs are complete, total like old-school classic-era ?Chaos AD?, Nailbomb type stuff. I did that on purpose, I wanted to start the album with these complete, insane type of sounds that most bands have forgotten today. And then, from that point on, the album takes different shapes, from the song ?I Believe?, which is a little more melodic. And then ?Moses?, which has a dub instrumental type thing connected too. And then ?Born Again Anarchist?, and ?Porrada?, which is complete hardcore. So yeah, it?s just got a lot of different things throughout the whole record, and it keeps it really interesting.
MUK: The records prior to this one were really very direct and relentless, whereas ?Prophecy? is multifaceted and very different. Did you feel it was important, what with this being the fourth Soulfly album now, to make a more varied kind of record this time around?
Max: No, not really. What it is is what it is. It came out naturally like that. That?s what I like about ?Prophecy?; it was not a planned album at all. Neither was none of the Soulfly?s, none of them were really planned. They happen to be what they are, and that?s what they are. And that?s what I like about it. They?re very natural records.
MUK: So how and where did most of these songs come together?
Max: They start in my house, because I write them first. Then I take them to the studio and show to the guys and we start jamming on top of it, and then we build the foundation and then we put stuff on top of it. The next step will be putting [in] other elements, different instruments and things like that. And then we take it to have Terry Date have an overall look and mix them the best way possible.
MUK: As most people will undoubtedly be aware, you changed personnel before you recorded this album. What do you feel this influx of fresh new people has brought to the record?
Max: It brought more fire to the whole album. It?s one thing playing with people you know, you know exactly what you?re going to get, and [another] playing with somebody that comes fresh and new, full of new ideas. [A] perfect example would be Marc Rizzo, [who] has made the guitars on this album?the first time I?ve had guitars like this since Sepultura days, and I think that was a missing link in my music for a long time. Many people, including myself, always missed that killer rhythm and lead type chemistry I had in Sepultura, and I could never get it right in Soulfly, and it was always a struggle. Marc comes in and makes this album completely much more the way it?s supposed to be.
MUK: These new guys who came in to work on the songs, did they bring their own flavour to them?
Max: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, for sure, somebody like Marc or Dave Ellefson?that has played in Megadeth and things like that?they have so much history in music, that they bring to the table what they have, and they add to the record for sure.
MUK: You?ve always been insistent on including melody in your work; be it with Soulfly, or be it with Sepultura many years ago. ?Prophecy? takes that just a little bit further. Songs like ?Mars? and ?Moses? have a reggae flavour to them. ?Wings? is very soulful and melodic. Where did the inspiration come from to include influences like these on the album?
Max: I think it?s just a balance of making sure the record is not one-sided; all the way through, just one thing. Maybe one day I?ll do a project or something, I?ll make just a total heavy, brutal album [where] I don?t put anything melodic on it. That?s kinda like what I did with Nailbomb. It was fun at the time to do something just totally not melodic at all. I might do that again, but for Soulfly it?s like, something that I listen to and what I live for, I need that balance. The heaviness at some point has to drop and let some melodic stuff come in. [I think that] sometimes makes even the heavy stuff heavier, by having that. I think that adds something to it.
MUK: Could you see yourself maybe one day making a record that is just completely melodic?
Max: I?ve never thought about it. It?s not really on my agenda [laughs].
MUK: I always get the feeling that any kind of musical project that you yourself take on, you take it on because you naturally believe in it, as opposed to contriving to do something. Is that the case?
Max: Yeah, I think anybody should do what they feel they should do. At the time I did Nailbomb, I had just finished writing ?Chaos AD?, which is full of riffs. A lot of people were like, ?how can you go and have more riffs already, you just wrote this record. It?s impossible to have any more riffs left!? [laughs]. And we did Nailbomb, which is full of amazing riffs and stuff. There was a lot of inspiration going on at that time and we just put it out.
MUK: Do you find it quite difficult to live up to the status of an album like ?Chaos AD??
Max: I don?t give a fuck really. I think those are good records. So are the ones I?m doing right now. I don?t look back. I live for the future, for now and for the future. I?m not one of those people who want to live for the past. Fuck that, it?s bullshit. Even when people want to talk about this old stuff, I just kind of change the subject. I don?t want to talk about that shit; it?s done.
MUK: So do you feel that including elements like reggae and dub on this new record might alienate what is, essentially, your target audience?in this case, metal fans?
Max: I don?t think so. It?s been in my music for a while. We did a Bob Marley cover on ?Roots?, and we did ?Prejudice?. I think most Soulfly fans, actually they kinda like that, they think it?s kinda cool that I?m bringing more to the metal scene. If you just want to listen to basic stuff, there?s bands out there that are just going to do that. I?m not here to do that, I?m here to just try to bring stuff to the table, and I think most fans like that. I?m sure there are some radical assholes [who] don?t accept that, but I lost those guys twenty years ago anyway. Even with ?Beneath The Remains? [there were people] who thought it was not metal anymore [laughs].
MUK: I can?t see how anyone could possibly think that ?Beneath The Remains? wasn?t a metal record.
Max: No, it?s true. People in Brazil that was following us thought that was a sellout record, because it had things like ?Inner Self?. And the picture?we had Andreas in the band and [he was wearing] sunglasses, [so that was perceived as a] sellout, you know?
MUK: How do you feel when you hear accusations like ?you sold out??
Max: I just don?t pay attention because I know that in my heart I didn?t sell out. I know it?s just people talking shit. It?s just people trying to bring you down. If you want to survive, you cannot give a fuck. If I did, it would?ve been done on ?Beneath The Remains? and I wouldn?t be here right now.
MUK: As I mentioned before, you had a complete change of personnel for the new album, one of those people being Marc Rizzo who used to play for Ill Nino. How did your collaboration with him come about?
Max: We were looking for a guitar player and he just left Ill Nino, so it was perfect. Actually, my wife and my manager Gloria, she?s the one that actually found him for me, [which is] a blessing. I was just kind of just taking a break. I was done with those guys. I wanted to take a break and wait until I found the right people. She came across and said I should talk to this guy; he?s a great guitar player. And yeah, it was a blessing. He came into the band, and he made this album be so much more special. I?m very happy about it.
MUK: How do you feel you?re connecting with him as another guitar player?
Max: I feel a little bit like maybe Ozzy felt with Randy Rhoads, or how I was with Andreas back in Sepultura. There is something that clicks, more than ever.
MUK: Former Megadeth bass player David Ellefson also plays on a couple of tracks on the record. How did his inclusion materialise?
Max: I think Dave was really good to work with because we live in the same city. We?ve been sharing stages since Rock In Rio all over the world, and it?s funny that all this time we never thought we?d work together. The opportunity kinda came and I thought it would be really cool to do something different and have two different people come and play bass. At that time I didn?t know exactly what Dave was up to. I knew that Megadeth was not going on anymore, but I didn?t know if he was doing another band. So I just kinda invited him as a guest musician, just for half of the record or a couple of songs. He did great. He really liked the songs and the way he played, you can tell he is a really experienced musician and it?s awesome to work with people like that.
MUK: Soulfly is radically different to Megadeth. How did he actually take to the songs you presented to him?
Max: It was really energetic because he felt some of the stuff was really punk-ish and thrash-style, and he really liked that. And he thought the other stuff was stuff he had never heard of before. A different kind of music, you know? Like you say, it?s not like Megadeth it?s like a completely different world, and he enjoyed that very much I think; that he was able to contribute on the thrash songs, as he has that thrash bass sound, but also contribute on the?on things like ?Wings?, he plays on those things. And they?re so melodic, so different. Megadeth?I know their songs, I know they have strictly metal melodic parts, but these are more like gospel and really off-the-wall type stuff. So, it was cool, he was really fun to work with.
MUK: Joe came back to do the drums for you. How did you working with Bobby come about?
Max: I think Joe, having him back, it shows the fans that old members come back. They have before. Roy had come back from the first album to the third album. Joe has come back from ?Primitive? to this. So, it?s never really done, it?s just a different phase. In the future, different members can come back and stuff, so it?s cool, it keeps some kind of family vibe to it. It?s not like we change every time, even though we did change the entire line-up. But, it?s something that was supposed to be for the music, for the integrity of the record.
And Bobby, I toured with him [when he was in] Primer 55. Before Dave came, he was the first choice for bass that came to town, and we did three concerts before we did the album. So, he came to do the concerts and he learned all the Soulfly songs.
MUK: There?s definitely a distinct freshness on the record. You produced it yourself, so did that give you all the control you needed to really take the songs where you wanted to?
Max: Yes and no. Control in terms of making sure they sound good, but it was out of control in the studio in terms of?we didn?t know where they were going, which is good. A lot of this album was done in one take. We never really spent too much time trying to figure out things. [It was like] sounds good, let?s go.
MUK: Roughly, how many songs did you record for the album?
Max: We recorded exactly how many is on the record. We didn?t do more or less songs.
MUK: Is that something that you?ve always done, or was it just for this album?
Max: I?ve always pretty much been like that. There?s been one or two songs that didn?t make it for some reason. They just weren?t right. But most of the time I go in with pretty much the material that I think, ?this is going to be the right thing for the record?.
MUK: You journeyed to Serbia for a week to help spark off some inspiration for what would eventually become ?Prophecy?. What were your experiences like out there?
Max: I spent a week in Serbia and it was really cool because it is a different place. It?s not the usual place that you?d expect to go, and I did some really cool music stuff there. It was a really cool music journey.
MUK: Did any of that stuff make it to this album?
Max: Yeah, a lot of it; the ?Moses? song with Eyesburn, which has the dub feeling. There?s instruments throughout the whole record that are like world music instruments played by this professor of music from Belgrade that I worked with, this really cool guy.
MUK: How did these guys feel about being on a metal record?
Max: I cannot say about the gypsies, they don?t speak English. So it was just kind of sign languages, and it was just kind of looking at each other smiling and going ?how you doing?? [laughs].
MUK: Was this the first time you?d worked with musicians who didn?t actually speak your language at all?
Max: The second time. The tribe in Brazil, half of them didn?t speak Portuguese.
MUK: Was that difficult to work around?
Max: Not really, because music is a language. Through music, sometimes you don?t need words. You kinda make eye contact anyway. It doesn?t matter if you speak the language or don?t. It?s musical language, you know?
MUK: So, they express their interest in the music through music?
Max: Exactly, yeah.
MUK: You?ve travelled to many, many places in your lifetime. Where do you feel has been the most inspirational, both spiritually and musically?
Max: I have to say, the experience in the tribe has been the most memorable one. Just because they?re so different, and it was something most people don?t get to do because it?s kinda like a National Geographic thing more than music. Looking back at that, I don?t know any other band that has ever done that. It?s like watching the National Geographic channel and being one of those explorers. It was a music track but it went beyond all that. It was really special.
MUK: There have been very, very few bands who have done something like that, even what you?ve done in Soulfly with the new album. Do you feel that you?re breaking the mould in a way?
Max: I definitely try. I don?t know if it?s worth it or not. Maybe in the future we?ll find out, but it?s definitely been challenging to do something different.
MUK: Spirituality is something you often talk of when you?re describing the motivation and production of a new record. How has your own spirituality been helping you, not only with ?Prophecy?, but in life in general?
Max: It?s been pretty much the same. It doesn?t change much. I have a belief and I?m just being guided by this belief.
MUK: What is your belief?
Max: Everybody has some kind of belief, whatever it is. I myself believe in god, but it is really difficult to explain to people and I don?t try it cause I don?t think they can understand. He has helped me through my time and has helped me stay in where I am in my life, and stay in music and do what I do. So, I am grateful for that.
MUK: Do you feel that both the good times and the bad times drive you forward to achieve new things?
Max: Perhaps. From bad times you get inspiration, a lot more than you can the good times. Good times are great, but when you hit rock bottom you?re just desperate. You have to write stuff that really means something.
MUK: Lyrically, what inspired you on this album?
Max: I?m not sure. I don?t know yet. This record?s really different, and sometimes I surprise myself by wondering what the hell I am even saying on this album. The lyrics came out naturally like that, and sometimes I?m not sure what they mean. I have to figure it out for myself.
MUK: So, you?ve actually made an album that you?re still trying to learn from yourself?
Max: Yes, I made an album I can be a fan of. Just be a fan and try to figure out what the hell I?m trying to say.
MUK: Presumably there will be a tour following the release of the new album or just before it. Is anywhere you are really itching to play right now?
Max: The Donington thing, because Donington always means a special event.
MUK: Download Festival?
Max: Yeah. The one we did with Sepultura was amazing. Of course the one that was cancelled because of Dana?s death, that was overwhelming. To do this now after four Soulfly albums would be just amazing. Hopefully that?ll work out.
MUK: And you think that?ll be quite an emotional experience for you, going back there?
Max: I think so, very much.
MUK: Is that in talks right now?
Max: Yeah. With the new album and everything, we?re just ready to go. Hopefully something can be worked out.
MUK: How do you plan to transfer some of the exotic instrumentation featured on ?Prophecy? into the live show?
Max: We?re gonna do most of it, except for bag pipes and things like that. That was done in Serbia. But all the flamenco stuff that Marc played, we?re actually going to be able to do it live which is really cool.
MUK: So what about some of the guests on the album?are you going to have those guest spots within the live show?
Max: We?re gonna try as much as we can. Whenever it is possible. It?s just like any other record. Every record had a couple guests and if we can have them around that?s really cool. If not, there?s plenty of material to play anyway.
MUK: Are you picking a definitive set list for these upcoming shows, or are you changing it day to day?
Max: We?ll change it from day to day cause I always liked that. I never liked the idea of having a robotic set list after you?ve played ten shows. It feels like you?re working in an office or something. So, I myself like to change at least three songs every day.
MUK: Are there any songs you haven?t played yet that you?d really like to include in the new shows?
Max: Yeah. I went to Serbia and did a show with Eyesburn and we played ?Bumba?, which hasn?t been in my set list for years and was one of the best songs of the night, and made me realise that some of the old Soulfly songs like ?Bumbaklatt? and ?Bumba? are really cool. I just forgot about them [laughs].
MUK: Are you planning to include more Sepultura songs or do you plan to take those out bit by bit and replace them with Soulfly numbers?
Max: I?m thinking about doing some special stuff that I haven?t played. Maybe stuff like ?Desperate Cry? or stuff that people aren?t expecting. They already heard ?Arise? and ?Roots?. So I might take a break from those and just play some obscure stuff that I think is really cool, that we haven?t played in a long time.
MUK: Do you still enjoy playing songs like that?
Max: Yeah, yeah. Like even Nailbomb is one of my favourite things to play. It feels so heavy, so brutal.
MUK: Do you think there might be another Nailbomb album someday?
Max: No. It would never be another record, cause we said that. That was a special record. It?s done.
MUK: But, you may be involved in other separate projects yourself?
Max: Yeah. Under different names or?I have nothing lined up right now but they won?t be Nailbomb, no.
MUK: The first Soulfly album was really straightforward and heavy. The second was very guest-orientated. The third was bare bones and stripped down. Where do you feel your fourth album is gonna take you?
Max: I don?t know. I can?t really say. I haven?t really analysed that much. I think the reaction has been really amazing so far. People who have heard [it] think it?s the most exciting Soulfly record to date, and that gives me some kind of clue that it?s going well. So, I?m just going with the flow.
Soulfly?s new album ?Prophecy? is due for release on March 29, as both a standard version and a digipak version with extras. A video for the track ?Living Sacrifice? was recently filmed, and includes a guest appearance from former Megadeth bass player David Ellefson.
source: metaluk.com
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